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jsnКак же все-таки Бодрийяр рулит.
By the way, do you know how General Schwarzkopf, the great Gulf War strategist, celebrated his victory? He had a huge party at Disney World. These festivities in the palace of the imaginary were a worthy conclusion to such a virtual war.
...
Similarly, it is useless to keep searching for computer viruses since we are all caught in a viral chain of networks anyway. Information itself has become viral; perhaps not sexually transmissible yet, but much more powerful through its numerical propagation.
(Disneyworld Company. Все-таки они здорово похожи с Эко. Эко пытается придерживаться позиций семиологии, а Бодрийяр -- философии, но результат получается очень сходный).
к старой теме "реализм vs номинализм", о схлопывании онтологического знания и моральном релятивизме:
The belief in truth is part of the elementary forms of religious life. It is a weakness of understanding, of common-sense. At the same time, it is the last stronghold for the supporters of morality, for the apostles of the legality of the real and the rational, according to whom the reality principle cannot be questioned. Fortunately, nobody, not even those who teach it, lives according to this principle, and for a good reason: nobody really believes in the real. Nor do they believe in the evidence of real life. This
would be too sad.
(Radical Thought)
кто-нибудь, пожалуйста, дайте почитать "Simulacra & Simulation" на английском или русском, или подскажите, где в Москве можно купить?
By the way, do you know how General Schwarzkopf, the great Gulf War strategist, celebrated his victory? He had a huge party at Disney World. These festivities in the palace of the imaginary were a worthy conclusion to such a virtual war.
...
Similarly, it is useless to keep searching for computer viruses since we are all caught in a viral chain of networks anyway. Information itself has become viral; perhaps not sexually transmissible yet, but much more powerful through its numerical propagation.
(Disneyworld Company. Все-таки они здорово похожи с Эко. Эко пытается придерживаться позиций семиологии, а Бодрийяр -- философии, но результат получается очень сходный).
к старой теме "реализм vs номинализм", о схлопывании онтологического знания и моральном релятивизме:
The belief in truth is part of the elementary forms of religious life. It is a weakness of understanding, of common-sense. At the same time, it is the last stronghold for the supporters of morality, for the apostles of the legality of the real and the rational, according to whom the reality principle cannot be questioned. Fortunately, nobody, not even those who teach it, lives according to this principle, and for a good reason: nobody really believes in the real. Nor do they believe in the evidence of real life. This
would be too sad.
(Radical Thought)
кто-нибудь, пожалуйста, дайте почитать "Simulacra & Simulation" на английском или русском, или подскажите, где в Москве можно купить?
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no subject
Date: 2001-12-17 04:25 am (UTC)Èëè àíãëè÷àíå 19-ãî âåêà ìíîãî î÷åíü çíàëè î ðóññêèõ è Ðîññèè?
Êðîìå òîãî, ÷òî ïðî÷èòàëè â ïåðåâåäåííîì â ôðàíöóçñêîãî "Ó÷èòåëå ôåõòîâàíèÿ"?
no subject
Date: 2001-12-17 05:02 am (UTC)Ñ êàêîé-òî ñòîðîíû, îïÿòü æå, ýòî âñåãäà â êàêîé-òî ìåðå ïðèñóòñòâîâàëî; îäíàêî ñîâðåìåííîå çàïàäíîå îáùåñòâî óäåëÿåò ñèìóëÿöèè âñå áîëüøå è áîëüøå âíèìàíèÿ, ñòðîèò îãðîìíûå èíäóñòðèè ñèìóëÿöèè, ñîáèðàåò îãðîìíûå àóäèòîðèè è ò.ä.
no subject
Date: 2001-12-17 05:19 am (UTC)Íå ïîíèìàþ. Ñòî ëåò íàçàä áûë áîëüøîé êëàññ ëþäåé, êîòîðûå ñ òåì æå óäîâîëüñòâèåì ïðî÷èòàþò ìîäíûé ðîìàí î áåäíîé ïðîñòèòóòêå ñ äîáðûì ñåðäöåì. È ÷òî? À âîñêîâûå ôèãóðû ðàçâå â 20-ì âåêå ïðèäóìàëè? À îáðàáîòêè äëÿ äåòåé è äëÿ ïóùåé ñêðîìíîñòè ñëèøêîì îòêðîâåííûõ êíèã? À èìèòàöèÿ äèêîãî ëåñà êàê òåìà âíóòðè ïàðêà? À ÷ó÷åëà äèêèõ çâåðåé è èõ êîëëåêöèîíåðû, íèêîãäà âæèâóþ ýòèõ çâåðåé íå âèäåâøèå? À çîîïàðêè, íàêîíåö? À àìåðèêàíñêèé wrestling, óõîäÿùèé, ïîëàãàþ, êîðíÿìè â òðàäèöèþ áðîäÿ÷èõ òðóïï è öèðêîâ? À ìîäû íà "äèêàðñêèå" ñòèëè â îäåæäå? À êîìíàòû ñìåõà è ñòðàõà?
Ñ êàêîé-òî ñòîðîíû, îïÿòü æå, ýòî âñåãäà â êàêîé-òî ìåðå ïðèñóòñòâîâàëî; îäíàêî ñîâðåìåííîå çàïàäíîå îáùåñòâî óäåëÿåò ñèìóëÿöèè âñå áîëüøå è áîëüøå âíèìàíèÿ, ñòðîèò îãðîìíûå èíäóñòðèè ñèìóëÿöèè, ñîáèðàåò îãðîìíûå àóäèòîðèè è ò.ä.
Ïîêàæèòå, ãäå ýòà òåíäåíöèÿ ê áîëüøåìó âíèìàíèþ ê ñèìóëÿöèè. ß âèæó òåíäåíöèþ ê óâåëè÷åíèþ äåíåã è âíèìàíèÿ íà ðàçâëå÷åíèÿ âîîáùå, ðàçâëå÷åíèÿ ëþáîãî âèäà, è òåíäåíöèÿ ýòà ëåãêî îáúÿñíÿåòñÿ òåì, ÷òî ëþäÿì, âîîáùå-òî, â çàïàäíîì ìèðå ëåã÷å æèòü, ÷åì ðàíüøå, è äåíåã ó íèõ áîëüøå, ÷åì ðàíüøå. À ãäå ýòà îñîáåííàÿ òåíäåíöèÿ ê çàìåíå ðåàëüíîñòè ñèìóëÿöèÿìè - ýòî ìíå íåÿñíî.
no subject
Date: 2001-12-17 08:11 am (UTC)Âîñêîâûå ôèãóðû ïðèäóìàëè çíà÷èòåëüíî ðàíüøå, íî èñòèííûé ðàñöâåò èõ ïîïóëÿðíîñòè îêàçàëñÿ âîçìîæåí ëèøü ñ ïîÿâëåíèåì ïîíÿòèÿ "çíàìåíèòîñòè", â îêîëîñîâðåìåííîì ñìûñëå ýòîãî ñëîâà, è ïîýòîìó, ìíå êàæåòñÿ, ñòàòóñ ìóçåÿ Òþññî çíà÷èòåëüíî âûðîñ â 20-ì âåêå.
ß íå óâåðåí, ÷òî çîîïàðêè ìîæíî òîëêîì îòíåñòè ê ñèìóëÿöèÿì; èìåííî ïîýòîìó îíè î÷åâèäíî ïðîèãðûâàþò â ïîïóëÿðíîñòè êàíàëó Äèñêàâåðè.
Íàêîíåö, wrestling (èìååòñÿ â âèäó èìèòàöèÿ áîÿ, äà?), íåñîìíåííî, ñòàë íàñòîëüêî ïîïóëÿðåí èìåííî â äâàäöàòîì âåêå, íàñêîëüêî ÿ ïîíèìàþ -- â ïðåæíèå âðåìåíà òàêèå ðàçâëå÷åíèÿ ñ÷èòàëèñü äîñòàòî÷íî ìàðãèíàëüíûìè, à ñåé÷àñ ýòî âïîëíå ìåéíñòðèì.
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Date: 2001-12-17 12:55 pm (UTC)Èñòîðè÷åñêàÿ ñïðàâêà: îñíîâíûì êîíêóðåíòîì ïðåäñòàâëåíèé Øåêñïèðà áûëè êàê ðàç êóëà÷íûå áîè è ìåäâåæüÿ òðàâëÿ.
Ïðî èìèòàöèþ ( ñèìóëÿöèþ? ) áîðüáû â öèðêå XIX âåêà òîæå ìîæíî âñïîìíèòü; ê ýòîìó îáñòîÿòåëüñòâó äàæå âîçâîäèòñÿ ëîæíàÿ ýòèìîëîãèÿ ñëîâîñî÷åòàíèÿ "ãàìáóðãñêèé ñ÷åò".
Òàê ÷òî wrestling ïðîñòî ïåðåíåñ âïîëíå ñòàðèííîå ðàçâëå÷åíèå íà TV.
Ïðîñòî áåäà ñ ýòèìè àðãóìåíòàìè ïîñòìîäåðíèñòîâ: âñå ó íèõ ãëàäêî âûõîäèò, à êàê äåëî äî êîíêðåòèêè äîõîäèò, òàê ---.
Âîñêîâûå ôèãóðû ïðèäóìàëè çíà÷èòåëüíî ðàíüøå, íî èñòèííûé ðàñöâåò èõ ïîïóëÿðíîñòè îêàçàëñÿ âîçìîæåí ëèøü ñ ïîÿâëåíèåì ïîíÿòèÿ "çíàìåíèòîñòè", â îêîëîñîâðåìåííîì ñìûñëå ýòîãî ñëîâà, è ïîýòîìó, ìíå êàæåòñÿ, ñòàòóñ ìóçåÿ Òþññî çíà÷èòåëüíî âûðîñ â 20-ì âåêå.
Íó äà, à ñòàòóñ "celebrity" åñòü ôóíêöèÿ èíäóñòðèè infotainment'a; ïîäîáíîãî ðîäà óñëóãè, íàòóðàëüíî, íàõîäÿò ñâîé ñïðîñ â îáùåñòâå ñ âûñîêèì disposable income. Òî åñòü ðîñò disposable income'a äåéñòâèòåëüíî ïðîèñõîäèò; íàïðèìåð, âñÿ "ìîëîäåæíàÿ êóëüòóðà", íà÷èíàÿ ñ Ýëâèñà Ïðåñëè, çàâèñèò èñêëþ÷èòåëüíî îò ñóùåñòâîâàíèÿ ìîëîäûõ ëþäåé ñ çàìåòíûìè ïîòðåáèòåëüñêèìè âîçìîæíîñòÿìè; so what?
no subject
Date: 2001-12-17 01:07 pm (UTC)Ïðîñòî áåäà ñ ýòèìè àðãóìåíòàìè ïîñòìîäåðíèñòîâ: âñå ó íèõ ãëàäêî âûõîäèò, à êàê äåëî äî êîíêðåòèêè äîõîäèò, òàê ---.
áûëî áû ìèëî, åñëè áû ìû ìîãëè óâèäåòü ïîâòîð ýòîãî ïðåêðàñíîãî ïàññàæà áåç ïîäìåíû îñïàðèâàåìîãî àðãóìåíòà. âïðî÷åì, êîíå÷íî, íå îáÿçàòåëüíî: è òàê íåïëîõî âûøëî.
Íó äà, à ñòàòóñ "celebrity" åñòü ôóíêöèÿ èíäóñòðèè infotainment'a; ïîäîáíîãî ðîäà óñëóãè, íàòóðàëüíî, íàõîäÿò ñâîé ñïðîñ â îáùåñòâå ñ âûñîêèì disposable income. Òî åñòü ðîñò disposable income'a äåéñòâèòåëüíî ïðîèñõîäèò; íàïðèìåð, âñÿ "ìîëîäåæíàÿ êóëüòóðà", íà÷èíàÿ ñ Ýëâèñà Ïðåñëè, çàâèñèò èñêëþ÷èòåëüíî îò ñóùåñòâîâàíèÿ ìîëîäûõ ëþäåé ñ çàìåòíûìè ïîòðåáèòåëüñêèìè âîçìîæíîñòÿìè; so what?
Äåéñòâèòåëüíî, so what? åñëè ýòî áûë àðãóìåíò ïðîòèâ ìîåãî ìíåíèÿ î ñâÿçè ìåæäó celebrity è âîñêîâûìè ôèãóðàìè, òî ÿ íå î÷åíü ïîíÿë, ãäå Âû çäåñü âèäèòå ïðîòèâîðå÷èå.
no subject
Date: 2001-12-17 09:57 am (UTC)Äîìîõîçÿéêà, ïðîâîäÿùàÿ áîëüøóþ ÷àñòü ñâîåãî âðåìåíè â ïîãëîùåíèè ìûëüíûõ îïåð, î÷åâèäíî, óäåëÿåò î÷åíü ìíîãî âíèìàíèÿ ñèìóëÿöèè ïðîñòîé ðåàëüíîé æèçíè. Ñþäà æå ìîæíî îòíåñòè è ìíîãî÷èñëåííûå reality show. Òàêèõ (ïðÿìîëèíåéíûõ) ïðèìåðîâ ìîæíî ïðèâåñòè ìíîãî, è ïðè ýòîì ìû çàòðàãèâàåì ëèøü ïåðâûé ñìûñëîâîé ñëîé áîäðèéÿðîâñêîé èäåè ñèìóëÿêðîâ, è íå êàñàåìñÿ áîëåå ãëóáîêèõ ïîðÿäêîâ èìèòàöèè, òàêèõ, êàê ïðèðîäà "çíàìåíèòîñòåé" èëè êóëüòà íîâîñòåé. ß, ê ñîæàëåíèþ, íåäîñòàòî÷íî çíàêîì ñ ðàáîòàìè Áîäðèéÿðà íà ýòó òåìó è ïîêà íå ÷óâñòâóþ â ñåáå ñèë ïîñëåäîâàòåëüíî îòñòàèâàòü åãî âçãëÿä íà ìèð.
ß âèæó òåíäåíöèþ ê óâåëè÷åíèþ äåíåã è âíèìàíèÿ íà ðàçâëå÷åíèÿ âîîáùå, ðàçâëå÷åíèÿ ëþáîãî âèäà, è òåíäåíöèÿ ýòà ëåãêî îáúÿñíÿåòñÿ òåì, ÷òî ëþäÿì, âîîáùå-òî, â çàïàäíîì ìèðå ëåã÷å æèòü, ÷åì ðàíüøå, è äåíåã ó íèõ áîëüøå, ÷åì ðàíüøå.
Ìíå êàæåòñÿ, ÷òî çà ïîñëåäíèå ñòî ëåò èçìåíèëîñü íå òîëüêî êîëè÷åñòâåííàÿ ìåðà ðàñõîäîâ îáùåñòâà íà ðàçâëå÷åíèÿ, íî è ñòðóêòóðà ýòèõ ðàñõîäîâ, ñ óâåëè÷åíèåì àêöåíòà íà èìèòàöèþ. Íî áûëî áû îøèáêîé ïîíèìàòü áîäðèéÿðîâñêîå ïîíÿòèå "ñèìóëÿöèè" êàê ÷èñòî ðàçâëåêàòåëüíûé òåðìèí.