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jsnКак же все-таки Бодрийяр рулит.
By the way, do you know how General Schwarzkopf, the great Gulf War strategist, celebrated his victory? He had a huge party at Disney World. These festivities in the palace of the imaginary were a worthy conclusion to such a virtual war.
...
Similarly, it is useless to keep searching for computer viruses since we are all caught in a viral chain of networks anyway. Information itself has become viral; perhaps not sexually transmissible yet, but much more powerful through its numerical propagation.
(Disneyworld Company. Все-таки они здорово похожи с Эко. Эко пытается придерживаться позиций семиологии, а Бодрийяр -- философии, но результат получается очень сходный).
к старой теме "реализм vs номинализм", о схлопывании онтологического знания и моральном релятивизме:
The belief in truth is part of the elementary forms of religious life. It is a weakness of understanding, of common-sense. At the same time, it is the last stronghold for the supporters of morality, for the apostles of the legality of the real and the rational, according to whom the reality principle cannot be questioned. Fortunately, nobody, not even those who teach it, lives according to this principle, and for a good reason: nobody really believes in the real. Nor do they believe in the evidence of real life. This
would be too sad.
(Radical Thought)
кто-нибудь, пожалуйста, дайте почитать "Simulacra & Simulation" на английском или русском, или подскажите, где в Москве можно купить?
By the way, do you know how General Schwarzkopf, the great Gulf War strategist, celebrated his victory? He had a huge party at Disney World. These festivities in the palace of the imaginary were a worthy conclusion to such a virtual war.
...
Similarly, it is useless to keep searching for computer viruses since we are all caught in a viral chain of networks anyway. Information itself has become viral; perhaps not sexually transmissible yet, but much more powerful through its numerical propagation.
(Disneyworld Company. Все-таки они здорово похожи с Эко. Эко пытается придерживаться позиций семиологии, а Бодрийяр -- философии, но результат получается очень сходный).
к старой теме "реализм vs номинализм", о схлопывании онтологического знания и моральном релятивизме:
The belief in truth is part of the elementary forms of religious life. It is a weakness of understanding, of common-sense. At the same time, it is the last stronghold for the supporters of morality, for the apostles of the legality of the real and the rational, according to whom the reality principle cannot be questioned. Fortunately, nobody, not even those who teach it, lives according to this principle, and for a good reason: nobody really believes in the real. Nor do they believe in the evidence of real life. This
would be too sad.
(Radical Thought)
кто-нибудь, пожалуйста, дайте почитать "Simulacra & Simulation" на английском или русском, или подскажите, где в Москве можно купить?
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Re:  òàêîì ñëó÷àå âàì ïî âòîðîé ññûëêå
Date: 2001-12-17 08:04 am (UTC)>...ýòî ñèñòåìíîå ñâîéñòâî ëþäåé è êîìïüþòåðîâ, ñî âñåìè âûòåêàþùèìè îòñþäà ñëåäñòâèÿìè äëÿ
>òàêîãî ðÿäà ÿâëåíèé, êàê âèðóñû. Ãðóáî ãîâîðÿ, "íåêîòîðûå", êàê ïðàâèëî, áóäóò ñîñòàâëÿòü
>îïðåäåëÿþùåå áîëüøèíñòâî.
Ïðèìåíèòåëüíî ê êîìïüþòåðó, èç ñàìîé êîíöåïöèè óíèâåðñàëüíîãî âû÷èñëèòåëÿ ñ õðàíèìîé ïðîãðàììîé íåèçáåæíîñòü âèðóñîâ íå ñëåäóåò. Äà, èç óíèâåðñàëüíîãî óñòðîéñòâà ìîæíî ñäåëàòü ÷òî óãîäíî, â òîì ÷èñëå è òó èäåàëüíóþ ñðåäó äëÿ ðàçìíîæåíèÿ ãàäîñòè, êàêîâîé ÿâëÿåòñÿ Windows. Âîïðîñ, òàêèì îáðàçîì, íå â ñèñòåìíîì ñâîéñòâå, à â òîì, ïî÷åìó òàê ïîëó÷èëîñü.
Ñ ëþäüìè ÷óòü ñëîæíåå, íî â äàííîì ñëó÷àå ëîãè÷åñêàÿ ñâÿçü ìåæäó îòîðâàííûìè îò ðåàëüíîñòè ëþäüìè, êîòîðûå ñòàâÿò íà êîìïüþòåðû ñèìóëÿêð îïåðàöèîííîé ñèñòåìû, à ïîòîì îáúÿâëÿþò ðåçóëüòàò ñèñòåìíûì ñâîéñòâîì, è ñîáñòâåííî ðåçóëüòàòîì - êîìïîì, ïðåâðàùåííûì â ãàäþøíèê, â êîòîðîì âèðóñ íà âèðóñå ñèäèò è ÷åðâÿêîì ïîãîíÿåò, ïî ìîåìó ëåæèò íà ïîâåðõíîñòè.
Âîïðîñ, òàêèì îáðàçîì, äåéñòâèòåëüíî â òîì, êàê îöåíèâàòü ïîäâåðæåííîñòü ëþäåé ñèìóëÿêðàì. Äåçàäàïòèâíîñòü ýòîãî, íà ìîé âçãëÿä, î÷åâèäíà (àíàëîãèÿ ñ êîìïüþòåðíûìè âèðóñàìè òóò îïÿòü î÷åíü ê ìåñòó) - òàê ÷òî âûâîä, ÷òî ýòî áîëåçíü êàêàÿ-òî (ñ) àíåêäîò ïðî êóëüòóðèñòà, íàïðàøèâàåòñÿ. Ñâîåãî ðîäà ñèíäðîì (ïîêà ãåíåçèñ íåÿñåí, íåëüçÿ ñ óâåðåííîñòüþ ñêàçàòü - ïðèîáðåòåííîãî èëè åùå êàêîãî) èíòåëëåêòóàëüíîãî èììóííîäåôèöèòà.
Ðàñïðîñòðàíåííîñòü áîëåçíè ãîâîðèò ñêîðåå î òîì, ÷òî ìû èìååì äåëî ñ ýïè- (åñëè íå ïàí-)äåìèåé, à âîâñå íå î òîì, ÷òî ýòî íîðìà. Âîïðîñ ïîëó÷àåòñÿ - ÷òî ýòî çà áîëåçíü, îò ÷åãî îíà âîçíèêàåò è êàê åå ëå÷èòü è/èëè ïðåäóïðåæäàòü.
no subject
Date: 2001-12-17 10:08 am (UTC)Áîþñü, ÷òî ñëåäóåò, åñëè ìû äîáàâèì ê ýòîìó îïèñàíèþ, ÷òî õðàíèìàÿ ïðîãðàììà, êàê è ñàì âû÷èñëèòåëü, ñîçäàíû ÷åëîâåêîì (÷òî ñâîäèò ïåðâóþ ôîðìóëèðîâêó ïðîáëåìû êî âòîðîé).
Äàëåå Âû ãîâîðèòå îá "îòîðâàííûõ îò ðåàëüíîñòè ëþäÿõ"; ñîáñòâåííî, Áîäðèéÿð êàê ðàç èññëåäóåò ýòîò ñàìûé îòðûâ îò ðåàëüíîñòè, è êîíñòàòèðóåò, ÷òî ìû äâèæåìñÿ â ñòîðîíó óâåëè÷åíèÿ ýòîãî îòðûâà.
Îïÿòü æå, ìíå ïîíÿòíî Âàøå æåëàíèå áîðîòüñÿ ñ èíòåëëåêòóàëüíûì èììóíîäåôèöèòîì, îäíàêî ÿ íå î÷åíü ïîíèìàþ, êàê ýòî ìîæíî ñäåëàòü è ÷òî õîðîøåãî ýòî äàñò. Ïðîäîëæèâ èììóíîëîãè÷åñêóþ ïàðàëëåëü, ìû âûÿñíèì, ÷òî èçáûòîê èììóíèòåòà (áèîëîãè÷åñêîãî) ó ÷åëîâåêà òàêæå ïðèâîäèò ê ìàññå íåïðèÿòíûõ ïîñëåäñòâèé.
Ýòî ê êàêîé æå ýòî ìàññå?
>ó ÷åëîâåêà òàêæå ïðèâîäèò ê ìàññå íåïðèÿòíûõ ïîñëåäñòâèé.
Ñàáæ?
Åäèíñòâåííàÿ íåïðèÿòíîñòü - òðóäíîñòè ïðè ïåðåñàäêå îðãàíîâ. Àóòîèììóííûå çàáîëåâàíèÿ - ðåäêîñòü, íåñìîòðÿ íà òî, ÷òî ïðîâîöèðóþùèé èõ àãåíò (çîëîòèñòûé ñòàôèëîêîêê è åãî ðîäñòâåííèêè, èìèòèðóþùèå ÷åëîâå÷åñêèå àíòèãåííûå ìàðêåðû "ñâîé-÷óæîé") âåñüìà ðàñïðîñòðàíåí. Íàäåæíûõ äîêàçàòåëüñòâ òîãî, ÷òî íåñïîñîáíîñòü âûñøèõ æèâîòíûõ ê ðåãåíåðàöèè îáóñëîâëåíà èìåííî èõ èììóííîé ñèñòåìîé, íà ñåãîäíÿ íåò.
Íåäîñòàòêè æå èììóííîé íåäîñòàòî÷íîñòè - î÷åâèäíû ëþáîìó êòî õîòü ðàç ëå÷èë ñâîé êîìïüþòåð îò âèðóñîâ.
Åñëè òû íåêðèòè÷åñêè ïðèíèìàåøü âñå, ÷òî òåáå ïðèõîäèò èç âíåøíåé ñðåäû, à â îíîé âíåøíåé ñðåäå åñòü - èëè äàæå õîòÿ áû òîëüêî ìûñëèìû - íåò, äàæå íå âðàãè, à ïðîñòî ïîòåíöèàëüíûå ñîïåðíèêè â áîðüáå çà êàêîé-íèáóäü îãðàíè÷åííûé ðåñóðñ - ìîæíî áûòü óâåðåííûì, ÷òî òåáå ðàíî èëè ïîçäíî âïåðäîëÿò êàêîé-íèáóäü ãàäîñòè ïî ñàìûå ãëàíäû. Ýòî âåðíî íà âñåõ óðîâíÿõ äåêîìïîçèöèè, íà÷èíàÿ îò áèîõèìè÷åñêîãî è çàêà÷èâàÿ êîãíèòèâíûì. À ìîæåò áûòü è íå çàêàí÷èâàÿ.
Êðèòè÷íîñòü âîñïðèÿòèÿ - íåîáõîäèìîå (ñîãëàñåí, äàëåêî íå âñåãäà äîñòàòî÷íîå - íî òàêè íåîáõîäèìîå) óñëîâèå âûæèâàíèÿ.
Re: Ýòî ê êàêîé æå ýòî ìàññå?
Date: 2001-12-18 03:11 am (UTC)Re: Ýòî ê êàêîé æå ýòî ìàññå?
Ïî ñóùåñòâó æå, ÿ ïîíÿë, êóäà âû êëîíèòå, íî âû, ïîõîæå, óïóñòèëè ïîñòàíîâêó çàäà÷è (ìíå îíà ïðåäñòàâëÿëàñü î÷åâèäíîé, ïîýòîìó ÿ åå â îñíîâíûõ ðàññóæäåíèÿõ è àíàëîãèÿõ íå ïîä÷åðêèâàë).
Ïðîäîëæàÿ áèîëîãè÷åñêóþ àíàëîãèþ, ñàìà ïî ñåáå èììóííàÿ ñèñòåìà íóæíà ïîñòîëüêó, ïîñêîëüêó îðãàíèçì òàêè íóæäàåòñÿ â îáìåíå âåùåñòâàìè (à ïðè ñëó÷àå è ñóùåñòâàìè) ñ âíåøíåé ñðåäîé. Åñëè áû öåëü ñòîÿëà çàùèòèòüñÿ îò âñåãî, ÷òî ïðèõîäèò èçâíå, ãîðàçäî ëó÷øå èììóííîé ñèñòåìû áûëî áû çàêîïàòüñÿ íà äåñÿòü ìåòðîâ â ñêàëüíûé ãðóíò è îòðàñòèòü âîêðóã ñåáÿ ãåðìåòè÷íóþ êîñòÿíóþ îáîëî÷êó. Íî öåëü ñòîèò ñîâñåì äðóãàÿ, ïîýòîìó íóæíà èììóííàÿ ñèñòåìà - íå òîëüêî (è íå ñòîëüêî) ñèëüíàÿ, ñêîëüêî èçáèðàòåëüíàÿ, ïðè÷åì åùå è ñ ïðàâèëüíî íàñòðîåííîé èçáèðàòåëüíîñòüþ. Ôèëüòð, à íå áàðüåð.
Íåêðèòè÷åñêîå íåïðèÿòèå íè÷óòü íå ëó÷øå íåêðèòè÷åñêîãî âîñïðèÿòèÿ. Òî, ÷òî íóæíî - ýòî èìåííî êðèòè÷åñêîå âîñïðèÿòèå. Òî åñòü íóæíû êðèòåðèè (òóò ìîè ýòèìîëîãè÷åñêèå çíàíèÿ õðîìàþò - íå îäíîêîðåííûå ëè ýòî ñëîâà ñ êðèòèêîé), à íå áîäðèÿðîâùèíà ñ ðåëÿòèâèçüìîì.
Re: Ýòî ê êàêîé æå ýòî ìàññå?
Date: 2001-12-18 04:38 am (UTC)Ïðîñòî ïðî÷èòàë òåêñò ïî âàøåé æå ññûëêå
Ïîä÷åðêèâàíèå ìîå.
Û?
Re: Ïðîñòî ïðî÷èòàë òåêñò ïî âàøåé æå ññûëêå
Date: 2001-12-18 08:10 am (UTC)Re:  òàêîì ñëó÷àå âàì ïî âòîðîé ññûëêå
Date: 2001-12-17 10:46 pm (UTC)ÈÌÕÎ, ñèìóëÿêð - íå ðóãàòåëüñòâî, à ñîãëàñíî îïðåäåëåíèþ, îáúåêò, ñîñòîÿùèé èñêëþ÷èòåëüíî èç ïðåäñòàâëåíèå î íåì. Windows, òàêèì îáðàçîì, ïðîñòî ïëîõàÿ ÎÑ, íî íèêàê íå ñèìóëÿêð.
×å-òî ó âàñ êâîòèíãè ïåðåïóòàëèñü